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Greetings! I tried to message you on twitter about maybe receiving a community copy, but I think you have the setting that prevents someone who isn't verified (didn't pay) from messaging you- Eithercase, I'd be very interested in the game!

Sorry to message here, wasn't sure where else I could let you know about this!

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sorry i've been so terrible about checking my notifications recently but i've updated with a bunch of community copies if you still need one!

Oh!
Awesome, thank you!
Just snagged one, I'm excited to read through it.

Just to say that I have played this game some times a year or more ago and the more I think about it, the more i'm shocked by how very concise and good the character sheet are.

I already have commented here at the time. But I think i'm just gonna add another comment because, 1 year after, i'm still constantly referencing to your game as an example.

I got this game with the great bundle and was interested in it but never actually played it until I played Persona 4 last month, and HAD to play this one.

My frist read adressed most aspects that I would expect to make a story like the one I hope it would, the characters and the world elements adress what is necessary to create the world an obstacles really well.

I dont know if it would be necessary but maybe a plot generator system would help structure the story a bit so it can help the improv aspec as well.

At last, the game is amazing, even if Im not that used to the diceless system it was a great game to play and to read. Got really excited to see the new stuff and hope thats still on the way.

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I return three months later to talk about my experience actually trying this game with a small group for a couple sessions before school work got in the way!

I have like, some critique of what made this game difficult for us, but overall I still think it's pretty cool and did really inspire my group in creating characters and exploring their dynamics.

My group was all Persona fans, 3/4 of us had GM experience, and the fourth had never touched a ttrpg in his life. (Congrats on making the first ttrpg he's played btw!) We had so much fun playing around with the archetypes and making the sort of persona characters we (all trans) wanted to see in the world: a trans male Lovers, nb-egg currently a mean nerd girl Magician, butch lesbian Emperor, etc. I am so glad that this game's flexibility allowed that.

We ran into a little trouble making characters bc so many of the options in "this is what makes you stand out" seems to be necessary to others, so it was difficult to actually pick any. For example with the Chariot "always getting into fights" and " a delinquent status" the first seems to lead into the other, so it felt if we picked one, we also had to pick the other.

The bigger struggle for us was making a story that felt like Persona, because even with all it's intimate friendship mechanics, the Persona series is a very story/plot-driven game, and trying to improv a Persona plot with 3 other people was very difficult, and actually made a couple of us try brainstorming what a GMed Persona game might look like. Next time we play I may suggest we talk longer before the game about story, and then start playing in medias res so we don't have to improvise discovering the Reversal.

In contrast to that critique, I think the Belonging Outside Belonging system is an excellent thematic choice for a Persona game, with how many outcasts there are in the video games and how tight knit the Persona-users become as a team. I am super excited to see what this over-100-page revamped edition is going to look like when it eventually comes out.

I do really hope to revisit this when my group has the time again! or hopefully whenever Reignited is released👀! We got super attached to our characters and what we might be able to do with them.

Thanks so much for making this game, and putting it in the Racial Justice Bundle so I was able to learn about it. I hope you keep making awesome games!

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I personally quite like the idea that the GM takes on the role of the false god (Nyx, Izanami, yaldabaoth et cetera), and acts semi antagonistically to the players

I played a two-session game of this with some friends and the world-building mechanics were so incredible, they really gave us all the chance to stretch out legs in the environment and feel it all out.

It does feel a bit directionless at first and I wouldn't recommend it to new players or a group that hasn't played together for long enough. It requires a fair bit of trust and vulnerability but also the ability to add to the conflict and stoke the fires a bit.

All that being said, this is a super fun game and we had a blast. It is definitely really evocative of the Persona games and just feels like such a cool game space to explore.

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So, I got this in a super bundle and I'm mega interested in this. I've read the playbooks over and I find the roleplay focused gameplay, something I'm  fairly unused to, to be quite interesting. I must also admit I find it a smidge confusing in a few ways and was hoping I could ask some questions.

First, there's the section that talks about the playbooks and the setting elements. The first says there's seven playbooks, then the next says there's four. I assume this is for each section, but it's not super clear.

Second, while I love the concept of the setting elements I'm a tad confused how Authorities, Masks, and Reversed are meant to interact, particularly Reversed becoming Masks. This seems to based on how the Shadows in p5 turn into demons/mythological figures, but some wording is confusing. For example, in the Setting Elements section it says they're the awakened inner feelings of people in The Reversal. And the Masks playbooks says they're 'your inner selves' to paraphrase. But then The Reversed have a move that lets them become masks? I don't entirely understand the intention with this wording, unless it's a reference to P4. In which case, the move list seems short for, say, the reversed version of an Authority figure. I do understand that the system and setting is supposed to be vague enough that, for example, the Authorities could have no reversed in the Reversal in any meaningful way (IE, not having palaces), but if you come from P5 to this it can feel a bit like reading another language due to it essentially having its own language for talking about this kind of game.

Finally, because I am used to dice rolling games like D&D, I'm used to there being a GM or Game Master. Is someone meant to play The Authority and The Masses other than those playing as Arcana characters?

There's also some typos here and there, I think. For example, under the 'lure' for the masses it says,  "Whenever makes a change in reality that affects the Reversal,  they gain a token." I believe there's a 'someone' missing there.

As a personal request, as someone who's never played a roleplay centered game like this and struggles to get their friends/players to roleplay, an 'example of play' document would be very useful. There's a lot I think I get, but a lack of examples makes it hard to totally wrap my head around and explain to others. Thank you so much for your time!

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Gosh golly play examples would be FanTASTIC, specially with combat and encounters alike that. 

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We played a 2 session game (1 for character and setting creation, 1 for "reality" interaction and build up, we think about playing another 1 session for reversal/untying)

That's a very very solid and good game. I'm mostly used to the Belonging outside belonging games and I have a -lot- of failed attempt to make a persona-like ttrpg. So very thank to you for sharing and publishing it.

Quick question : what length of play did you have in mind for the game. I have the intuition that it can be play for really long term-campaign with a dedicated group (the character creation set place for so many character) we decided to play a 3-session play to see how things will work out, but now I am curious to try a very long play. Just to be sure it's not inherently against the main concept.

(Sorry my english is not very well

I definitely tried to make it so that you could play 2-3 sessions and have a pretty solid game in a short time, if only because I wanted to make it accessible to people who don't have the time for long campaigns, but I totally dreamed about people having long campaigns with Stand Up!! I'm really glad you're inspired to try!  It's not against the main concept at all—Persona games are hundreds of hours long after all lol.  I hope it goes well!

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This is going to sound like a very stupid question but I have to ask it, mainly since I'm from a more gamist background with some sprinklings of PbtA.

How do Mask Moves work, some of them enable a playbook to specifically attack, like the Chariot, and others provide various means of ending conflicts, like the Fool. But what's to stop the Fool just using their "Make an opponent surrender" against every single enemy they come across? Or the Chariot from using "KO an opponent"? And what about the ones that don't have an overtly offensive Move, how do they function within a fight?

I'm aware this is probably caused by unfamiliarity with the system as opposed to anything else, I just wanna hash it out before I present this to my group. 

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From the Dream Askew/Dream Apart book (the games that the belonging outside belonging system are based on): "Making a move means taking the prompt and running with it, letting it guide what you say next and how you play your character. The move might point toward an outcome, but know that what happens next may still surprise you."

Because this is a diceless game, moves are used entirely through roleplay.  There is nothing preventing a Fool character from using the "Make an opponent surrender" move as many times as they want—I wanted Mask Moves to feel a bit overpowered, since it adds to the sense of strength players should have when in The Reversal.  But the move isn't just something you say "I use this move" and move on; they are prompts to help you shape the story.  How do you make the opponent surrender? How does that help you? What does that opponent do in response? Do they give you information or do they run away?

Moves can be used however you interpret them, too.  A Lovers character could use the "Put up an impenetrable shield" move to trap an opponent instead of protect an ally or an Emperor character could use "Wake someone to the bigger picture" to make an opponent realize that fighting the party is useless.  It's all based in roleplay, so what's important really is using the moves to craft a story that feels good to be playing.

Beyond that, the most important thing about Mask Moves is that your characters can only use them in The Reversal.  The magical power of a Mask can't be used in reality; there, your characters are just normal people.  So a Chariot character can't just "KO an enemy" if they get into a fight in the street, for example.

I hope this helps!  I know roleplay-only/diceless systems can seem a bit daunting at first to players who are used to rolling dice, but it's sometimes easier to think of it as everyone collaborating together to play out a story.  Any failure or success is something you choose to happen in order to tell a more interesting story, rather than something that happens to you as a result of something out of your control, like a poor dice roll.  

If this only introduced more questions, let me know and I'll do my best to clarify!

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I'll be sure to hit you up if I have more questions, that's for sure! But first of all, I want to say thank you for getting back to be so quickly, and for making this game. It's like a godsend for me, not just for running a Persona-type game, which I've wanted to do for ages, but also providing a framework where I actually get to PLAY in a Persona game, thanks to how the system works. 

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So funny story, a friend of mine linked this to me when we both bought the Racial Justice and Equality bundle. He said it kind of disappointed him since he said that the game was much more a concept but not a real system since it didn't have any core rulings in it.

Just today I went and read the system, and took a really long look at everything, then I looked up the term belonging outside belonging. And honestly, I'm super excited with what else you come with for this game. Still intimidated and confused by how Stand Up uses the setting elements with different players.

I've been a fan of the Persona series since I was in middle school and high school, and my friend showed me what he was playing on his PS Vita (Persona 4 Golden). After buying the game and system, I have to say I'm an avid fan of the stories, the characters, and otherwise. Sadly I haven't been able to pick up Persona 5 yet, but I can see the inspiration behind P4 and P3 in this.

Hopefully in the future there will be pre-made settings so it could be easier for someone that hasn't played in the belonging outside belonging system before to congregate a group and play it. If you could share tips and tricks to help with this, that would be fantastic.

I'm looking forward to more of what comes out of Stand Up. Thank you so much for this wonderful game you've created.

I'm really interested in trying this out! I've never played a GM-less game before though so it's a little intimidating. 


One question I do have though. Is there any plans to add combat to the playbooks? Obviously persona as a genre is based very heavily around the RPG elements, so having a tabletop game based on it being mostly centered around rp makes complete sense. But persona also has combat and I would love to see it included in some way. Especially for players who may be more inclined towards combat over rolepla.

Thanks for commenting!

There are no plans to add traditional dice combat to Stand Up.  The belonging outside belonging system and Stand up don't use dice at all, so everything is resolved through roleplay and collaborative storytelling.

However, that doesn't mean you can't be in combat!  I tried to make your Mask Moves, the things you can use in the Reversal (the "metaverse"), empowering in situations where you feel like fighting is the answer.

You can play the game without getting into a fight at all or get into lots of fights, in and out of the the Reversal.  It all depends on what you and your group feels right for your story.  Fundamentally, though, adding a combat system is antithetical to the core system of the game, so it will never be added.

As for the GM-less aspect, I'm currently working on an update that will give new players to GM-less tabletop games some more help starting out, especially if you're used to games like D&D.  I'm not sure when it will come out, but keep an eye out if that's something you think would help you play.

I hope this answered your question in a helpful way!

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Thank you very much for the reply!!
I've never heard of the belonging outside belonging system before so I wasn't aware that it wasn't a combat based system.
That's really good to know! 
I'll look into it as much as I can.
I know one of the players I usually play TTRPG games with is big into combat, which is the main reason I asked.

having something set up for newbie GM-less game players would definitely be helpful! I'm sure for lots of people~

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This is a really nice TTRPG I've tried it a few times. With some friends and really enjoy it. its a really nice concept. I originally got it as apart of the Bundle for Racial Justice and Equality. but was thinking of getting another copy for a friend of mine.


I have to ask though have you ever thought about having your games on Table Top sim? With the whole covid thing going around and Tabletop being able to let you play with others not even in your area i was just wondering if that was a goal for you or if you didn't mind your games being played on table top.

(Just for ref  https://store.steampowered.com/app/286160/Tabletop_Simulator/)

Putting my games on Tabletop Sim is a more long-term goal for me, so it probably won't happen anytime in the future, unfortunately.  However, I'm 100% fine if you or anyone wanted to mod my games into Tabletop Sim for personal use.

I hope that answered your question and I'm glad you enjoyed! :D

That's fine. Thanks I can see the work you put in to this kinda stuff. It helps the newbs (like my self) get a feel. Oh also would you happen to have a business email or something for inquiries?

I do! It's fatalstgames [at] gmail [dot] com

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Having just finished Persona 5 Royal and currently studying Game Development with a specialisation in writing, I am incredibly excited to look into this as part of the bundle. I've had the joy of helping others tweak editions of other tabletop games to fit a Persona setting, so I can't wait to give this a go. 

Thanks!

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like many others I found this on the racial justice bundle! i’m super excited bc my best friend and I having been joking for years that i’m destined to be a persona protagonist! i’m looking forward to giving this game a try, and also to any additions you make in the future.

are you considering making other playbooks? perhaps one for the justice arcana based around ken and akechi, focusing on revenge/trauma/big consequences?

Thank you so much!

I really wanted to have a Justice playbook when I was making this game but I also wanted to focus more on the S. Links that are usually party members for the initial release, so I decided not to add it.

However, I still love the idea of more playbooks, specifically Justice and maybe Fortune or Hermit, so I might build those for a potential update sometime in the future.  Keep an eye on this page 👀 for future new content.

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I will! any new additions or alterations would be super exciting to see.

After reading through it last night I stayed up late with a friend brainstorming how to run it! We came up with the idea that while in the Reversal, to have a party size limit that’s a fraction of the actual play characters like in actual games, so that’s we could always have someone available to play/narrate the Reversed. We also tried to come up with ideas for keeping npcs consistent when they’re played by different people

That's so awesome!  Definitely let me know how it goes when you get a chance to play :) I really appreciate these comments lol they're the best notifications to get. 

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Finding out this is on the racial justice and equality bundle and now I need to convince my friends to play a new rpg XD

do youhave any plans to release some pre-made adventures or scenarios? I feel its much easier to introduce people to ttrpgs if we have an already set and made story.

I'll defenetly keep an eye on this and any other stuff you make.

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I don't have any plans for a pre-made adventure at the moment but your interest has definitely inspired me to try making one!  I'm not sure when I will get the chance to write one out and release it, but keep an eye out on this page!  And thanks so much for the comment I really appreciate it :)

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i can't wait to find some friends to play this with!! this seems like a lot of fun :)

Thank you!

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Wow, this game looks like a lot of fun! All I need now are enough friends willing to give it a shot lol

Thanks! :))

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Of all the things i'd find from the racial justice and equality bundle, i certainly didn't expect a Persona inspired TTRPG. Reading through the PDFs right now and the amount of detail and subtle references to the persona games here and there within it is honestly amazing. Keep up the awesome work!!

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Thank you so much for the comment! I really appreciate it :D